Another TNC review
Less a coherent review, more a bunch of thoughts under a few headings. Under a readmore for spoilers.
On the whole I’m a lot prouder of Floornight than TNC, even though the fine details of TNC are much more successfully executed. What makes Floornight work is that I was writing exactly what I wanted to write, all the time – this results in a world and plot that are kind of a sprawling mess, but in a way that is very honest and direct: “here’s something new I really like! Maybe you like it?”
Hence, I still sometimes go back over bits of Floornight and smile, thinking “man, I love that part,” where when I look over TNC, I see some sentences and phrases I’m proud of, but also kind of cringe thinking about how I’m leading the reader around saying “no, the fun is over here. What? No, I meant it’s over there.” Floornight is just like “the fun is right here.”
Hopefully I can write a third (or fourth, or etc.) thing that has the upsides of both and the downsides of neither.
drossbucket asked: Hi, would you mind me sticking up a review of TNC? I know you're bored of it, but it it's largely very positive, more-or-less effortpost-length, and tries to go a bit deeper than 'I like this bit of the plot but not that bit'. Some of it is a repeat of previous reviews but I *think* I've said some new stuff too.
Sure, thanks for asking.
untiltheseashallfreethem asked: Ok, I finished TNC. Thanks for writing it! I got increasingly invested in the story as it went on, and I really liked the final chapters. I love the mystery of the ending -- jung qvq Cnhy raq hc qbvat jvgu uvf yvsr nsgre guvf, vf Nneba fgvyy nyvir, ohg rfcrpvnyyl, *jung gur uryy qvq Nneba fnl gb gubfr qvare jbexref*??? V ybir gung vg'f abg fcrpvsvrq, fb vg tvirf gur ernqre cyragl bs ebbz gb vzntvar jung fubeg fcrrpu sebz n fgenatre jbhyq pbzcry guerr beqvanel qvare jbexref gb pbzzvg fhvpvqr.
Thanks. I’m glad someone enjoyed that aspect, since it seems to have been the most widely disliked element of the ending. :)
@slatestarscratchpad Thanks for the very interesting review. (Cut below for spoilers)
About the “postmodernism” thing – I am admittedly a fan of a lot of what tends to get called “postmodern” fiction, but your description of how people are supposed to talk about PoMo fiction is very different from my own ideal. A novel that leaves a lot up to interpretation isn’t necessarily depicting a real world in which no interpretation is actually true; it just doesn’t give you enough information to determine uniquely which one is true. But it also gives you some information, and there is actual debate to be had, which doesn’t just come down to “all interpretations are valid, oh isn’t this plurality of views so very valuable in itself” – you can actually argue which one fits the textual evidence better.
A quality that a lot of my favorite books have is that I feel like they’re giving me a incomplete glimpse of something that feels real, and I can re-read them and each time have new ideas about the nature of the real thing that I’m glimpsing. If I’m never going to come to a uniquely right answer, that’s not because of some fundamental truth about there “being no uniquely right answer,” but rather because I just don’t know have enough info to uniquely determine the solution, and instead have to do constrained optimization with the info I have. But this is the same situation we’re in in real life most of the time – most of thinking is exactly the same sort of constrained optimization.
The key to writing a story like this (besides just the usual stuff that makes good writing) is withholding enough information to block a unique solution, but also make it feel like there is a real truth being glimpsed, and that the writer isn’t just throwing contrived weirdness at you. I tried to do this in TNC, although I don’t know if I succeeded.
I know it’s sort of a faux pas to ask this, but is there a uniquely right interpretation of TNC that makes everything fall into place? That yes, we the reader can figure out why those three waitstaff particularly had to commit suicide, what the exechamp and Solenoid Entity are and why they were the best way for Salby to communicate Mundum, et cetera?
I feel like if you say “Yes, but I’m not telling you”, then a lot of my objections disappear. If you say “no”, they stand as written.
The problem is that this sort of question can’t really have any answer except “sort of yes, sort of no.”
If I completely understood Leonard Salby and exactly why he wrote exactly the things he did, I’d wouldn’t be here talking to you; I’d be Leonard Salby, or WC. A lot of the weirdness was written intuitively – I didn’t entirely know what it meant, but felt like I was channeling some intuitive sense of what “felt meaningful” and connected to certain emotions and ideas I wanted to evoke.
But yes, there’s a general background plot I was working from, not all of which is immediately transparent. (The Space Episode, for instance, should be a lot more intelligible if you’ve read the rest of the story.)
(via slatestarscratchpad)
@slatestarscratchpad Thanks for the very interesting review. (Cut below for spoilers)
I assumed it was different cause someone told her (I THINK her?) that doing drugs is really common in the US
Oh, yeah – I just meant that as “this is the sample I am citing a base rate for” (just saying ”drug use is common” would seems really strange without further qualification).
slatestarscratchpad asked: I've been thinking of posting a review of TNC to my Tumblr. It will say some good things and some bad things. Do you want me to do it, or are you sick of hearing stuff at this point?
Sure, I would love to read it. Thanks for asking – I’m am sick of hearing stuff of the “I liked this! I didn’t like this! That’s all!” variety, but more detailed feedback (even if it’s ultimately evaluative) is fine.
(Someone I know from elsewhere on the internet unexpected sent me a ~4500-word set of chapter-by-chapter reactions earlier this morning, and it made my day.)
A few more things about TNC, I guess because this thread on fail-fandomanon is getting to me. (Sorry, I am Too Sensitive and Not Good At Taking Criticism and all that stuff I guess)
(Some of this is written in a bit more of a fighty tone than I usually have, I’m sorry if I come off like a jerk)
raginrayguns asked: where is jenni_fur from?? the UK? ireland? australia? china? india? latin america?
I actually don’t think I ever decided on this! Probably somewhere in the U.S., because that would have made going to Spelunk more feasible?