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Floornight

lovestwell:

Floornight is the other web fiction by @nostalgebraist​, besides The Northern Caves, which I recently read and liked a lot

In Floornight, scientists figured out that minds (called “souls” throughout) exist independently of brains, which are merely convenient hardware to run minds. There’s weird mind-physics which allows for conscious radiation, transient literal Boltzman minds hovering in space, and splitting a single mind into many shards coexisting in different universes (QM Many-Worlds-like) which can later be reintegrated back, remembering all versions together (this reminded me of Coil’s power in Worm). A small community of scientists study all this on the ocean floor which for some reason is a potent source of non-human mind-radiation.

While the premise is intriguing and much of the tech-building is superb, I didn’t like Floornight overall and abandoned it somewhere around the middle. My main complaint is that it’s very much not tight. I’d call a piece of fiction “tight” if everything in it feels inevitable in-world, everything fits snugly with everything else. Nothing feels ad hoc, made up to advance the plot but not making sense on its own. In Floornight, almost everything is ad hoc and flabby. 

The intriguing sci-fi premise is stretched thin to enable plot twists that abuse its nature. E.g. at some point the entire community is forcibly “reintegrated” into a more “mainstream” reality, but none of them get double memories from their supposed counterparts, as they did before on a smaller scale. (It’s possible that this is explained later, or maybe even at that point and I missed the explanation. But even if there is an explanation, the fact that it’s needed makes it all feel artificial and arbitrary, flabby). Characters behave very unnaturally; they seem to follow emotional scripts preselected by the author, and barely react emotionally to the hugely important events around them, like the aforementioned “reintegration” that cuts them away from the entire world (this is lampshaded a little by the author, but still remains very hard to believe). Everyone is a rather clumsy puppet on a string. 

Some things are excellent. The writing overall is very good. The characters are distinct and well-designed. Terminology, special effects, suspense, all these are great. But I couldn’t look past the very flabby plotting and the NPC-like behavior of the characters as the plot unfolds. By the middle of the book, I was bored with all the characters, my suspension of disbelief was completely shot and I couldn’t see myself caring about what adhocish unmotivated stuff is going to happen next.

It’s quite amazing just how much better TNC is (written just a few months later, I think?). None of the problems above exist in TNC; everything is orders of magnitude more motivated, interconnected, “tight”, confident. 

Thanks for the commentary.  (I mean that – constructive criticism is valuable.  I hope the below doesn’t come off as overly defensive.  I’m mostly trying to clarify where I’m coming from, which may be interesting if you’re wondering how I could produce these two stories in such close succesion.)

I think the “loose” or “ad hoc” nature of Floornight was an inevitable consequence of the kind of story I wanted to write.  I deliberately wrote it as a “kitchen sink” story mixing together every cool idea or plot bunny that came to mind, with the hope that the sheer batshit weirdness, combined with my own enthusiasm for all of it, could create its own sense of wonder.  I tended to err on the side of gluing on new plot elements I liked even when the glue wouldn’t be totally invisble, because my goal was chutzpah and grandeur, not fastidious flawlessness.

 You’re right that TNC is “tighter,” but I don’t feel like this represents any kind of improvement on my part.  The developments in TNC are more sensibly motivated because they’re (for the most part) mundane events happening for familiar reasons among (in most respects) ordinary people; they’re easier to believe because they’re much closer to things we’ve actually seen in our own lives, not because I’ve gotten any better at writing “believable” events.

TNC is a story in which – for most of the text – almost nothing actually happens; Floornight is a story in which, so to speak, almost everything happens.  My hope was that the people and events in Floornight would get sufficiently far from familiar signposts that suspension of disbelief would remain because none of us really knows what it would be like for that stuff to happen anyway – but obviously it is possible for this strategy to fail.


The lack of multiple memories in the big reintegration is not ad hoc – it is presented as unexpected, and the characters remark on how surprising it is both at the time and afterwards.  Moreover, it’s not as though I temporarily suspended the “real” rules of the setting in order to make things more convenient for me as a writer; I certainly could have included multiple memories without messing up the plot (and indeed it would allow for some cool possibilities), but that actually wouldn’t fit into the full rules of the setting, and I’d have had to do something ad hoc (!) to make it happen.

I think the real issue here is that I was dropping too much novelty on the reader too fast – I didn’t tell the reader that a large-scale reintegration like that could occur, or show them what a “normal” one would look like, before giving them an unusual case.  I don’t think the inclusion of an unusual case is bad in itself, since after all this is (in part) a story about scientific discovery.

(None of this is to say that there isn’t plenty of ad hoc magic in the story, just that I don’t think this particular example is an instance of it.)

hylleddin:

ozymandias271:

asocratesgonemad:

Just recieved an email (to HPMOR subscribers) from Eliezer Yudkowsky about a new light novel he’s self-publishing which costs $0.99 and the fact that I’m now considering not getting it is a worrying sign of incredibly patholgical cheapskatery.

Also, he encouraged the recipient to go to WorldCon and nominate HPMOR for best novel. I don’t know why he’s refusing to settle for best fanwork (isn’t that a category?), but then again HPMOR *has* become really ubiquitous in nerd circles. I’m just worried that he’s tossing out a more achievable Schelling point through needless direct coordination. Yudkowsky is nothing if not an Icarus.

(also it denies us the opportunity to nominate Floornight for best novel as part of the same slate, which is a shame not only because it may very well deserve it (I don’t keep up with modern mainstream SF) but also because it would definitely be horribly awkward for @nostalgebraist :P )

TNC for best novel HPMOR for best fanwork #RationalistPuppies

Though, TBH, if we’re putting rationalist fic up for best fanwork, I vote Luminosity + Radiance. Or maybe Metropolitan Man.

The Hugos only reward work released (or completed) in the previous year, so those wouldn’t be eligible.

Also, someone pointed this out upthread but the fanwork category is actually “Best Fan Writer,” i.e. a person who did eligible fan writing in the previous year.  (Historically it’s been given for nonfiction commentary rather than for fanfic, but the Hugo FAQ implies that fanfic is eligible.)

(via hylleddin)

Re: EoE

asocratesgonemad:

[fair warning that I am pretty stupid and have probably dramatically failed to understand something and/or everything that happened]

Now THAT’S the kind of inscrutable ending I like. I vastly prefer when the answer to a plot question is *so complicated that you can’t untangle it*, rather than being *so simple that you can’t understand how it relates to the question*.

Spoiler-y, disconnected thoughts under the cut:

Keep reading

Keep reading

(via asocratesgonemad)

exsecant:
“ Ratio Tile? @nostalgebraist you are SO busted.
”
I was re-reading that post and thought “man, there should be a character in something named ‘Ratio Tile’ ”
And then realized that writing fiction had given me the ability to do something...

exsecant:

Ratio Tile? @nostalgebraist you are SO busted.

I was re-reading that post and thought “man, there should be a character in something named ‘Ratio Tile’ ”

And then realized that writing fiction had given me the ability to do something about this

(If you’re writing fiction, you can just do whatever you want! Really! It’s great!)

rusalkii:

I just read both Floornight and The Northern Caves in one sitting. That was not an experience mere mortals were meant to withstand.

~*~*~WeLcOmE tO mY tWiStEd MiNd~*~*~

asocratesgonemad:

Finding myself in posession of too much free time, I reread Floornight! And I understood it this time!

Last time I tried to read it was shortly after it was finished, IIRC, and it was late and I was very very tired and reading kind of impressionistically and that approach works about as well for Floornight as it does for the Silmarillion.

Anyway, it’s pretty freaking cool, you guys. Extremely high-quality science fiction that is really not like anything else. It does require… concentration, and would probably have benefitted from making things a little easier for the reader to follow, but I still strongly recommend it.

I know I’m kind of late for the “read Floornight!” train, but yo, if you haven’t, and you like dense fun high-concept SF stuff… set aside a block of time when you’re feeling sharp and patient, and read it. I don’t think you’ll regret it.

(for those who don’t know, Floornight was written by local lovable horseman @nostalgebraist, and can be found in its entirety here on AO3.)

(via asocratesgonemad)

consulo-cuniculos-deactivated20 asked: Found a typo in Floornight Chapter 6: "Being able to guess by know" -> "Being able to guess by now"

Thanks.

(These corrections are always welcome – I’m aware that there are a bunch of typos in the existing text, and have some of them noted down, but haven’t corrected them because I’m waiting around to do a major edit.  At this point I should probably just correct the ones I know about, though)

The person reading and commenting on Floornight just called one of my (more … morally questionable) characters an “unthinkable shitlord”

:)

good morning

I see Esther tomorrow!!  She will see the city I grew up in!!

Also, someone is reading Floornight and leaving enthusiastic/interested comments every few chapters and it’s very gratifying.